Centroid Community CNC Support Forum

What is Parameter 12 set to?

tblough wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:03 pm What is Parameter 12 set to?

It is correctly set to 10 which is the TP.

I'm kind of surprised that the "Auto[F4]" function is ignoring Parameter 12 to set WCS Z0 when CNC12 is configured to use the Tool Touch Off to set the Z Ref point.

I wonder if Keith has a good explanation for that or if this is a bug that has been undetected so far.

-swissi

UPDATE
On a second thought the Setting "Use Tool Touch Off device to set Z Reference" might indicate that you are also using this device to set WCS Z0 with a Tool instead of the TP so CNC12 does not default to the tool number of the TP but wants to force the user to enter the Tool Number being used to set WCS Z0.

swissi wrote:On a second thought the Setting "Use Tool Touch Off device to set Z Reference" might indicate that you are also using this device to set WCS Z0 with a Tool instead of the TP so CNC12 does not default to the tool number of the TP but wants to force the user to enter the Tool Number being used to set WCS Z0.

This is probably correct.

If this is the case, it would help if the manual description for Machine Parameter 43 made that clear (assuming that the Wizard selection you pointed out funnels into bit 1 of P43, and nowhere else). In the distant past, a non-zero value in Parameter 71 was what determined whether you intended to use the tool detector in Part Setup with the F4/Auto function.

If a user has specified that they will be using the tool detector for the F4/Auto function in Part Setup, then yes, it is a given that they might be using any tool along with it. The software should use the entered tool number instead of assuming one from P12. After all, the main reason for using the tool detector in part setup is because you don't have a probe, but you do have a tool detector.

cncsnw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:23 pm If this is the case, it would help if the manual description for Machine Parameter 43 made that clear (assuming that the Wizard selection you pointed out funnels into bit 1 of P43, and nowhere else). In the distant past, a non-zero value in Parameter 71 was what determined whether you intended to use the tool detector in Part Setup with the F4/Auto function.

You bring up a good point Marc. Looking at Parameter 43 again it just occurred to me that I already reported to Keith that the bits of this parameter got screwed up in V4.5. The option not to subtract the height of the TT configured in Parameter 71 no longer works, it will always subtract the height even when you select in the Wizard not to do it.

So it's highly likely that the issue that the "Auto[F4]" function is ignoring the Tool Number of the TP has to do with the screwup of the bits in Parameter 43.

Keith please take note!

-swissi

I'll have a look at this later, probably tomorrow. My painting / bath / WC fitting duties are over for now but I'm pretty well bushed, as it's hot and humid here by our standards.

Looks as if there is some sort of clarity starting to emerge. I'll have a good look into what Swissi and Marc have been talking about and report back if I have anything to contribute.

We will figure this out!

swissi wrote:The option not to subtract the height of the TT configured in Parameter 71 no longer works, it will always subtract the height even when you select in the Wizard not to do it.

Are you referring to Part Setup here, or to measuring height offsets in the Offset Library?

If a TT is to be used with the F4/Auto feature in Part Setup, then the height in Parameter 71 should always be subtracted. It is a given that the tool detector is sitting on top of the surface that is to have the specified Z coordinate; that the specified tool is going to touch the top of the TT; and that the height offset for the specified tool has been correctly measured or set already. In that case, the only right answer is to subtract the height of the TT.

On the other hand, when using a tool detector to measure height offsets in the Offset Library, the key question is whether the TT was used when setting Z Reference. If you set Z Reference on top of the TT, and you auto-measure tools to the top of the TT, then there is no need to compensate for the height of the TT. If you set Z Reference to the underlying surface (perhaps using a touch probe); then you place the TT on that surface, and auto-measure your tools, it is necessary to subtract the height of the TT. So, CNC12 should give the user a choice (via Parameter 43) whether or not to subtract the height of the TT when auto-measuring tools in the Offset Library, to allow for different procedures in setting Z Reference.

cncsnw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:48 pm ... So, CNC12 should give the user a choice (via Parameter 43) whether or not to subtract the height of the TT when auto-measuring tools in the Offset Library, to allow for different procedures in setting Z Reference.

The Wizard of v4.5 is setting bit 1 and 2 of Parameter 43 reversed but it is worse than that. Even when you set the bits correctly manually, the logic is still screwed up. It's not possible to set the Tool Height Offset with the TT without CNC12 subtracting the height of the TT. The only way right now is to set the Height off the TT in Parameter 72 to 0.

I also compared what impact the different bits of Parameter 43 had in CNC12 v 4.20.1 and v4.5 in regards to the Part 0 (Auto[F4]) and Tool Offset (Auto Measure[F3]) functions and I can confirm that the behavior of v4.5 has changed what has tripped up Muzzer from his usual routine and could have the potential to trip off others.

Keith I will email you a comparison Matrix that shows the differences between CNC12 4.20.1 and v4.5.

-swissi

Hi Swissi - you seem to be making good progress here. If there is anything I can do to test / confirm, let me know but your understanding of the system seems to be way ahead of mine!

Muzzer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:41 am Hi Swissi - you seem to be making good progress here. If there is anything I can do to test / confirm, let me know but your understanding of the system seems to be way ahead of mine!

Let's let Centroid address what Swissi found and then yes, you should continue testing it until it is resolved.

What WE must understand, there are all experience levels using Centroid. We can't assume everyone is at a certain knowledge level. Its best to explain things in the most simplest forms and I think videos go a LONG way to understanding how things are being used.

I DO NOT know all there is about CNC12. Clearly understanding tool setting options in CNC12 and explaining the different possibilities clearly would be great.

Bottom line, we learn from each other and collectively we can make things better. Whether its CNC12, macros like Swissi took the time to put together, or wiring a cabinet. WE all have something to contribute!

Marty

That's what makes this forum so productive and continue to contribute to the growth of the products. It was a great idea to involve the users so proactively - many companies would have run a mile at the suggestion. We are all different but together we have a common goal.

Great credit is due to people like yourself, Swissi and many others who give so much of their time and knowledge so willingly and selflessly to this end.